Cops shoot and kill man holding a toy gun in Walmart

[bravetran]

I can't post links but the story is new and easy to find. In a Walmart in Beavercreek, Ohio, John Crawford, 22, was fatally shot by police officers when he was carrying a toy gun the store sells. A couple of other customers say him holding the realistic toy gun and notified police who came to the scene and when we wouldn't put down his "weapon" he was shot.
If I was him I would have dropped the toy gun immediately simply knowing that the police can and will shoot you. This frightens me to no end though that I could be walking in a store with the stores product and get shot down by the police, it doesn't seem fair.

 

[Profit5500]

It makes me wonder about the people who walk into Walmart in some states open carrying a firearm. If they were to fall in the same predicament as John Crawford it would have been awful. I don't think walking around in the store with a drawn weapon is the safest idea since the police shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[bravetran]

It makes me wonder about the people who walk into Walmart in some states open carrying a firearm. If they were to fall in the same predicament as John Crawford it would have been awful. I don't think walking around in the store with a drawn weapon is the safest idea since the police shoot first and ask questions later.

The worst part I think is the fact that it wasn't even a weapon that John was carrying, but a toy gun that the store sells! I'd have a hard time listening to the police if I was confronted by them in a similar manner.

What would happen to the officer(s) that did this?

 

[askanison]

That is sad. The man should have known to drop the toy when confronted by the police though. I thought toy companies were required to have orange tips and make the guns they sell look like toys and not real guns.

 

[PhilA]

Yet another tragic story, that COULD have been avoided. You really have to listen to cops regardless of what you think. You can take up a complaint later.

 

[Shawn]

I won't open carry my firearm anywhere even if it was legal. I don't want you to know that I am armed unless I was on duty or on the beat or something like that. When I am just a regular plain clothes citizen, my firearm is concealed and I don't announce I am carrying. Carrying around a fake or toy gun is foolish - if its in the package, then that is fine but don't take it out, flash it around and expect people to be completely okay with it, especially in these modern times. People like that are giving us good gun owners a really horrible rep.

 

[bala]

Police need mandatory minimum life sentences when they betray the public trust.Couldn't he see that orange muzzle at the tip of the gun..?.They have been trained to ensure that everything is full of holes that in any situation could possibly be construed as a threat.They take that to mean kids with wii controllers, 8 lbs dogs, and apparently a guy shopping in Walmart for a pellet gun.

 

[ItsZiggy]

Apparently he was at the store with his girlfriend, he was on the phone with his children's mother when he was shot, and she said he was browsing the video games and then went to the toy section, the next thing she heard was him saying "it's not real", which were his last words, according to her he didn't have time to react and it happened far too quickly. The hospital ruled his death as a homicide.

Full story here: John Crawford Shooting: Ohio Man Shot Dead By Police While Holding Toy Rifle In Walmart

Also it appears another customer, a woman, died shortly after while people were fleeing, not sure what caused it.

 

[Kate]

Wow... there seems to be so much more going on here than those first breaking news reports knew. First of all... the "toy" wasn't in any packaging. Why would he have opened it in the store and started carrying it around? His girlfriend has said he didn't have it when they went into the store... so doesn't it sound as if this was planned?

Second, any thoughts on why he wouldn't put it down when police repeatedly told him to put it down? If I'm standing there with a toy gun in the middle of WalMart and police are telling me to put it down, I'm truly not going to stand there waving it around saying "it's not real"... I mean really! I'm going to put it down!

I'm also thinking that if he would have just picked it up and put it into his shopping cart or carried it to the checkout, the police wouldn't have needed to be *called.* So there's more to this, sure as I'm sitting here. And how long did it take for officers to get there after being called? Whatever this person was doing to make someone call the police, he was still doing it when they arrived apparently.

At least the surveillance videos will tell the story.

 

[stevesxs9]

Thoughts and prayers go out to his family because we know they are devastated by this. But until someone can clearly define what proper protocol is, then its dangerous to assume anything with the Police.There are a small percentage of officers who take pride in their work who protect and serve the public. But until radical changes come about in the law, such tragic incidents like this will continue to happen.

 

[Kate]

I read something you said wrong and have to edit what I'm saying. But anyhow, why would "radical changes" be needed? The dude was waving a toy gun around and not putting it down when police were yelling for him to put it down. You'd prefer waiting until a child came around the corner to see whether or not the gun was real?

There are *always* two sides to every story. He needed to put the blasted thing down when told to put it down! (No, I'm not saying that anyone deserves to die, but good grief, common sense has to be put into action sometimes... playing around with the police saying "it's not real" instead of just putting it down really isn't a wise choice!)

 

[stevesxs9]

Just like with any other system it becomes outdated and rules and procedure are broken which leads to abuse of authority and it has nothing to do with race. I realize the Police has to protect themselves, but this shoot first ask questions later crap has to be addressed. No he shouldn've had the gun waving it, but did he shoot at anybody?
If you think this is acceptable then that's your opinion not mine.

 

[Kate]

If you think this is acceptable then that's your opinion not mine.

Yes, that's my opinion. If that gun had been real, we'd be looking at another mass murder now wouldn't we? Just because... why? Police "assumed" that he wasn't going to shoot? Had to wait until he actually killed someone before doing something about it? Idealistic things may be nice *unless* lives are at stake. We'd all LIKE to live in La-La Land where "the bad guy" doesn't kill people at WalMart (or in movie theaters or in schools, or even in Amish one-room school houses, eh?) but it's not like that in the real world. Maybe in computer games but I doubt it.

Now, would I say it's acceptable if the officers had come around the corner with guns blazing and shot the guy without giving him a chance? Of course not... but did you see the part where they repeatedly told him to drop it and he got defiant and wouldn't do it? Do you truly think they could have taken that risk in the middle of a public place like that?

So they're telling him time and time again, drop it drop it drop it drop it.... and he JUST STANDS THERE WAVING IT AROUND! What's the next step in your world? "Okay sonny, you don't need to drop it, we'll just walk away"? If he'd dropped it, he would have gone to jail for something like terroristic threats. Wouldn't have that been better than the "game" he chose to play?

One more thing while I'm on a roll... the same self proclaimed "champions of right" in cases like this are *always* the first to scream "OMGGGGGGG, that was my mama/child/best friend who was killed by a gunman... why didn't police dooooo something to stop him?!" GRRRR

 

[Ricardo187]

It was his fault. He was carrying a realistic toy gun and the police had no way to find out if it was real or not until they check it themselves. If he refused to drop his weapon, it's failure to comply while holding a possible lethal weapon so, what could they have done differently?

 

[Profit5500]

It was his fault. He was carrying a realistic toy gun and the police had no way to find out if it was real or not until they check it themselves. If he refused to drop his weapon, it's failure to comply while holding a possible lethal weapon so, what could they have done differently?

Unfortunately even something like an airsoft gun could look very realistic. The cops had to put him down if he was that crazy to draw it out and wave it around. I just think people who wave a gun around like a idiot should not have it in the first place. People like that make it hard for the people who want to own a gun at home and use it for the right reasons.

 

[Kate]

Update to this one... the family is now "demanding" the store video be released to the public. That, of course, can't happen while the investigation is going on. I'm not sure why they want to torture themselves with seeing their son die... if all the witnesses say he was waving the gun and not putting it down after being told many times to put it down, what could they hope to accomplish by seeing it?

I think they THINK they're doing something good for their son's memory, but chances are it will end up hurting the family.

I can't help thinking that the demand for release is somehow connected to what's going on in Ferguson. (By the family thinking they're doing something good, I mean... but this story is *so* very different from the Ferguson story.)

 

[Profit5500]

Update to this one... the family is now "demanding" the store video be released to the public. That, of course, can't happen while the investigation is going on. I'm not sure why they want to torture themselves with seeing their son die... if all the witnesses say he was waving the gun and not putting it down after being told many times to put it down, what could they hope to accomplish by seeing it?

I think they THINK they're doing something good for their son's memory, but chances are it will end up hurting the family.

I can't help thinking that the demand for release is somehow connected to what's going on in Ferguson. (By the family thinking they're doing something good, I mean... but this story is *so* very different from the Ferguson story.)

I don't think they would be able to get the tape if anything they would need a lawyer to probably get part of the evidence. Family probably want some answers to their son's murder.

 

[Muthoni]

This incident would have been prevented if he just dropped the toy gun. The police may not have known that the gun was a toy or the fact that he bought it at the store. It is always better to be safe than sorry. The police acted the way they should; what if the gun was real?

 

[Kate]

I don't think they would be able to get the tape if anything they would need a lawyer to probably get part of the evidence. Family probably want some answers to their son's murder.

Yes, I agree... but I think they need to realize that the answers may do a lot more damage than they would do good. They're probably thinking of their "dear little boy" who would never do anything like he was accused of... but to actually see him doing it would be so psychologically damaging.

All that aside, I *do* understand the desire the "prove the news stories wrong" and would probably try to get the videos myself. I'm just thinking it wouldn't be wise even if I did.

 

[Profit5500]

Yes, I agree... but I think they need to realize that the answers may do a lot more damage than they would do good. They're probably thinking of their "dear little boy" who would never do anything like he was accused of... but to actually see him doing it would be so psychologically damaging.

All that aside, I *do* understand the desire the "prove the news stories wrong" and would probably try to get the videos myself. I'm just thinking it wouldn't be wise even if I did.

I understand that finding the truth can be depressing for the victims. If this family does pursue and gather the answers to this case they would feel devastated.